tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post2248617546798440522..comments2024-03-15T01:29:44.048-07:00Comments on Mark P. Witton's Blog: Scientists: please pay more attention to palaeoartMark Wittonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-48193374754143564772017-03-31T08:56:55.779-07:002017-03-31T08:56:55.779-07:00Hi Matt,
Thanks for this comment. I took your las...Hi Matt,<br /><br />Thanks for this comment. I took your last point to heart and penned a follow up piece to this article, highlighting how even artistically-challenged scientists can bring their expertise to the table and guide palaeoart production.<br /><br />http://markwitton-com.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/scientist-palaeoartist-collaborations.htmlMark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-89564544378071899992017-02-21T08:02:38.736-08:002017-02-21T08:02:38.736-08:00A lot of statistics reported in the literature are...A lot of statistics reported in the literature are either inappropriate, done badly, or simply not well thought out.Raptor's Nesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01451618880276065935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-59494518173051354482017-02-20T20:43:19.992-08:002017-02-20T20:43:19.992-08:00I remember my statistics teacher awhile ago saying...I remember my statistics teacher awhile ago saying that a lot of people , incl. Scientists, had no idea how to do statistics and would try to publish work with trivial errors like reporting dozens of P values and declaring that a value of 0.04 is clearly significant.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939450250284374761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-47851221697751861332017-02-20T19:25:34.141-08:002017-02-20T19:25:34.141-08:00Maybe that would be a professionally acceptable wa...Maybe that would be a professionally acceptable way to "shame" scientists into doing better next time. Especially since you were too polite throw any offenders to the wolves of the internet, Mr. Witton.Andrew Raymond Stückhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12080621275951453768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-40889985116643411152017-02-20T19:22:42.249-08:002017-02-20T19:22:42.249-08:00I think maybe peer review should start considering...I think maybe peer review should start considering any included paleoart along with the actual science. For example:<br />"Smith et. al. (2017) misidentified the zygoapostrophe on the fourth quadrilateral pseudoungulate, and also included a truly god-awful life restoration of the type specimen."Andrew Raymond Stückhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12080621275951453768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-4875977096080248302017-02-19T03:41:18.084-08:002017-02-19T03:41:18.084-08:00Preparators, though nowhere near enough, are indee...Preparators, though nowhere near enough, are indeed employed by host institutions. You need a cast done, you give your specimen to a preparator, a few days later you get the cast. You need artwork done, you have a problem.David Marjanovićnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-8818706710781352852017-02-19T03:34:17.335-08:002017-02-19T03:34:17.335-08:00Yes!!! Thank you!!!
It is frowned upon to take ha...Yes!!! Thank you!!!<br /><br /><i>It is frowned upon to take half-measure approaches to descriptions, statistical analyses or cladistic methodology</i><br /><br />Less than you think.David Marjanovićnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-57043106467209024822017-02-19T03:33:23.659-08:002017-02-19T03:33:23.659-08:00Specifically, it's the reconstruction that'...Specifically, it's the <b>reconstruction</b> that's wrong, not the skeleton, even if it seems ludicrous; and it's <b>wrong</b>, not an alternative fact.David Marjanovićnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-78546625494930638842017-02-19T02:13:02.099-08:002017-02-19T02:13:02.099-08:00I think it works this way; if you don't care a...I think it works this way; if you don't care about it as art, you are not going to care about it as scientific representation. <br /><br />Who are the new wave of great Paleoartists since the late 80s - early 90s? I don't think our current value system allows us to hold anyone in esteem at the expense of the next person/method. There's no creative incentive and it becomes contagious. <br /><br />Paul W. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-54375764576865002002017-02-19T01:50:49.056-08:002017-02-19T01:50:49.056-08:00some thoughts...
http://drip.de/?p=3236some thoughts...<br />http://drip.de/?p=3236davidmaashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16696298300141402317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-64882654041742583332017-02-17T16:52:14.157-08:002017-02-17T16:52:14.157-08:00I have to say, your comparison of artists to prepa...I have to say, your comparison of artists to preparators and statistics-savvy colleagues is not entirely accurate - preparators, though fewer and fewer, have always been employed by host institutions have they not? And statistics-savvy colleagues get a publication out of it - or at least some favour in return - neither get one-off commissions...though I wish I got paid a commission for every statistical enquiry I've dealt with in the past... <br />Having said that, I think the main issue is funding. Unless there is some specific reason to, I don't think it is very common to budget for artwork in research grant applications. So I don't know how researchers are supposed to take responsibility when there is simply no money.Raptor's Nesthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01451618880276065935noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-60400558340053289042017-02-17T09:37:24.859-08:002017-02-17T09:37:24.859-08:00Probably entirely coincidental and not at all an i...Probably entirely coincidental and not at all an inspiration for this piece is the rather sad and depressed, fish munching pregnant Dinocephalosaurus depicted in an otherwise rather important paper: http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms14445/figures/3 Oh the melancholic look on it's face "someone made me do this, guess I'll just go eat some fish heads". Come on now that animal should be beaming with a proud, pregnant glow on it's face not looking like a rejected fish monger.Duane Nashhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467779935085970909noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-56735405848759826792017-02-17T08:04:36.162-08:002017-02-17T08:04:36.162-08:00Hi Mark,
First, I love your artwork -- thank you ...Hi Mark,<br /><br />First, I love your artwork -- thank you for filling the world with your beautiful and accurate reconstructions.<br /><br />In my experience, the problem comes from two areas: funding and not being an artist. Regarding funding, when one applies for a grant or gets funding, there often is not money available for paleoart (although there should be given it's importance). So even if I really wanted to pay you for your work, I often simply can't. And I certainly don't want to approach an artist about work if I can't compensate them for their time and expertise. Having a brother who is a commercial artist, and having done all the artwork for my book, I understand and appreciate the time and dedication it takes to do things right. Perhaps this is where, as paleontologists, we need to make our voices heard about STEAM (Science Technology Engineering ART and Mathematics). I wonder if it were possible to start a campaign to voice this concern? Given the current politics in the US, I doubt incorporating monies for scientific art into NSF grants is going to be any sort of priority. However, I am in complete agreement with you that paleoart forms an integral part of what we do and how we communicate that with the public.<br /><br />The second thing is that I think some scientists don't want to challenge an artist because either someone is doing the art for free or because they feel they are such poor artists that they have no leg to stand on. Paleoart is one of those things that requires open channels of communication and the ability of the artist to hear the scientist and work towards accuracy, even if that somehow destroys a particular aesthetic, etc.<br /><br />Anyway, thanks for this blog post and I'd be interested to hear what you and other paleoartists think can practically be done to help this situation.<br /><br />MattDr. Matt Bonnanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10003540624248044008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-19364420592014999612017-02-17T07:36:42.927-08:002017-02-17T07:36:42.927-08:00...and the palaeontologists adoration of alcohol i......and the palaeontologists adoration of alcohol is explained!Mark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-74466563703061278312017-02-17T07:35:09.733-08:002017-02-17T07:35:09.733-08:00Hmmm... maybe there's actually a need for a &#...Hmmm... maybe there's actually a need for a 'how to peer review palaeoart in papers' guide. I imagine a lot of scientists wouldn't touch art commentary with a barge pole, but aspects like fitting the skeleton inside the reconstruction are obvious things to look for, and anyone can do it. I might take that idea up!Mark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-38598278151880953272017-02-17T07:21:08.866-08:002017-02-17T07:21:08.866-08:00With respect to your first few bullet points: I pu...With respect to your first few bullet points: I put forth (in a book review for <i>Natural History</i> some years ago) Holtz's First Law of Paleoart: if the skeleton doesn't fit inside your reconstruction, your reconstruction is wrong.Thomas Holtzhttps://geol.umd.edu/~tholtz/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-15945730223165185222017-02-17T05:23:15.429-08:002017-02-17T05:23:15.429-08:00Have you had any experiences with public stations?...Have you had any experiences with public stations? I'd extend this argument / plea to that realm as well... and be equally optimistic (read: sarcastic) about it being heard. Scientific editors I've dealt with have often lacked 1) dramatic abilities 2) scientific knowledge 3) understanding (or even tolerance) of cg workflows. <br />It would put a certain bounce in my walk to see their televised world declining into insignificance if it weren't for the fact that the new social-medial replacement just proved its incompetence in a sequence of geopolitical disasters. <br />I DO have some really nice whiskey though.davidmaashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16696298300141402317noreply@blogger.com