tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post2643483372769635789..comments2024-03-15T01:29:44.048-07:00Comments on Mark P. Witton's Blog: New paper: when the short-necked, giant azhdarchid pterosaur Hatzegopteryx ruled Late Cretaceous RomaniaMark Wittonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-25180192917665382012022-03-12T20:50:42.085-08:002022-03-12T20:50:42.085-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-87691326347269931712022-03-12T20:50:20.931-08:002022-03-12T20:50:20.931-08:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-87767888308547407852021-03-15T16:49:37.562-07:002021-03-15T16:49:37.562-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.ninemoonspiercinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17400495741895693914noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-21838188391962208292017-12-28T10:31:13.187-08:002017-12-28T10:31:13.187-08:00I'm not arguing regarding standard Pterosaur a...I'm not arguing regarding standard Pterosaur adaptation such as hollow bones and such; however, was there enough wing surface for a gliding, let alone powered flight? Is it not possible that these very large Pterosaurs were flightless forms?<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-41721191948710495562017-03-13T10:40:36.204-07:002017-03-13T10:40:36.204-07:00Good post.Good post.Tony M.http://entryleveljobscam.blogspot.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-6363201000200562892017-01-25T16:05:43.480-08:002017-01-25T16:05:43.480-08:00Although I don't know how frequently turtles w...Although I don't know how frequently turtles would be around. If they're landing on the beach once a year, they're not a great food source for a large warm-blooded flying carnivore with a high metabolism, and predator saturation means the Azhdarchid cannot gather a significant fraction of them before they leave.<br /><br />So even if it ate turtles sometimes their seasonal availability would probably mean it still primarily hunted faster, softer game inland.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939450250284374761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-78547607290532825842017-01-25T15:56:54.926-08:002017-01-25T15:56:54.926-08:00True. That does make it seem more likely Hatz was ...True. That does make it seem more likely Hatz was eating turtles.<br /><br />Unfortunately, Alanqa is known from quite limited remains as well, correct?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939450250284374761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-24132126144222142282017-01-25T11:34:56.527-08:002017-01-25T11:34:56.527-08:00Does that make it a...
Pterror-bird? Does that make it a... <br />Pterror-bird? Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-40042527128800714342017-01-22T17:50:31.527-08:002017-01-22T17:50:31.527-08:00Sigh, another petty evasion.
Correct on known azh...Sigh, another petty evasion.<br /><br />Correct on known azhdarchid foot measures, but as Mark Witton said there might be a degree of variation since azhdarchids probably were fairly ecologically diverse.<br /><br />Alanqa does have speciations to feed on hard-shelled preyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-33522319637909963252017-01-22T15:58:42.277-08:002017-01-22T15:58:42.277-08:00Also, you'd probably need to adjust your saddl...Also, you'd probably need to adjust your saddle during flight so you'd be leaned forward into a streamlined position. You might also want a streamlined helmet.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939450250284374761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-22349657748631875122017-01-22T15:57:20.761-08:002017-01-22T15:57:20.761-08:00On the ground, yes, in the air, yes, but I'm n...On the ground, yes, in the air, yes, but I'm not sure if it would be able to do thermal soaring with the extra weight, so your flight range could be limited to few-kilometer mad dashes at low altitude and 100 mph.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939450250284374761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-55571054913791001702017-01-22T15:31:57.918-08:002017-01-22T15:31:57.918-08:00Agree about turtles being easier prey, although I&...Agree about turtles being easier prey, although I'm not sure that justifies having a neck capable of withstanding the weight of a Sedan pressed against the bill.<br /><br />Also wonder whether this would lead to an evolutionary arms race, with sea turtles becoming bigger, tougher, more protective and more threatening in response to predation by large, tough Azhdarchids.<br /><br />I also wonder if there's any way to determine whether the beak was more ideal for penetrating thick-but-soft flesh or hard turtle shells? I.E. if these did primarily kill shelled animals, their beaks should be more adept at crunching the shells than at piercing through many inches of flesh, whereas if they were primarily eating land animals, the story is different.<br /><br />We might also hope that Hatz or one of the other short-necked robust Azhdarchids has footprints or fossil foot material. Other Azhdarchids were really not well equipped for walking on beaches. Compared to fish-eating pterosaurs like Pteranodon, their feet are quite small. If I remember correctly, About 30% tibial length. So if we approximate a Hatz foot as being an 40 cm by 15 cm rectangle, and it's got 4 of them, then the foot pressure under its own weight should be around 10000 N/m^2, which is half the pressure under a human foot, but remember that Azhdarchids need to take off, and taking off on sand or mud may not be ideal. Other pterosaurs that were less strongly terrestrial seem to have about double the length of feet in proportion to tibial length.<br /><br />So if we find evidence of larger feet for Hatz, maybe that would be evidence that it did a lot of takeoffs from sand or mud, which would indicate that eating sea turtles is more probable.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17939450250284374761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-44101932679804068352017-01-20T20:46:15.937-08:002017-01-20T20:46:15.937-08:00How much do we know of Eurazhdarcho? Would it have...How much do we know of Eurazhdarcho? Would it have played a Hatzegopteryx-like role, filling the mid-sized predator slot; or do you think it was more a supporting character, with the true mid-sized predator slot being filled by young Hatze itself?Andrew Raymond Stückhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12080621275951453768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-36048018126684475772017-01-19T17:20:53.751-08:002017-01-19T17:20:53.751-08:00Let's move on to the important question here. ...Let's move on to the important question here. I weigh 150 pounds; with motivation I could get to 135. Would I be able to ride this animal, on the ground or in flight? Plainly it would be mightier in battle than Arambourgiana, and very nearly as high at the shoulder. Bathshebahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18034211006669217340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-47255058268495886662017-01-19T17:04:56.936-08:002017-01-19T17:04:56.936-08:00This comment has been removed by the author.Bathshebahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18034211006669217340noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-75398304111206243842017-01-18T23:37:12.289-08:002017-01-18T23:37:12.289-08:00Thanks for all the comments - there are several co...Thanks for all the comments - there are several common themes, so I'll post thoughts in one response rather than reply separately.<br /><br />Specific ecology, use of head etc.: Remember that we are far - very far - from having a complete idea of Hatzegopteryx skeletal anatomy and any discussion about specifics of its diet or unique adaptations for obtaining food are speculative at this stage. What we can say is that the jaw material we have is similar to that of other azhdarchids - internally reinforced and massive of course - and thus not indicative of radically different foraging mechanics to its smaller cousins. We don't see any obvious indications of the skull being reinforced to use as a pickaxe against animal bone, for instance. We assume Hatz could do some gnarly stuff with its head against small animals and vulnerable tissues, but that's mostly on account of its giant size and indication of a stress-resistant skeleton. But who knows what the skull was actually like - it might turn out quite different to that of other azhdarchids.<br /><br />Flight: Again, without more material we can't say much about Hatzegopteryx flight. The wing bones we have - and remember they're only bits and pieces - show the same adaptations to flight as smaller pterosaurs and seem, so much as we can assess them, to be scaled appropriately to a giant pterosaur. So that puts a tick in the 'probably volant' column, but beyond that it's difficult to say anything without lots of arm waving and speculation. This is especially so because of a point we made in the paper, and that others have made in earlier publications: it's looking increasingly likely that azhdarchids were more disparate than we realised, and aspects like wing proportions may not be consistent across them. This is a time for azhdarchid workers to be cautious about extrapolations and speculations, because the glimpse we have of their palaeobiology shows us more about what we don't know that what we do.<br /><br />Thalassodromeus: Yes, in my 2013 book I suggested this species as could be a powerful terrestrial stalker. If I'm correct (and incidentally, unpublished work on its jaw muscles verifies that they are atypically big) we might see this as a trial run for what Hatz would do, at much greater size, later on. But again, Thalassodromeus is not a well known animal, and I could be wrong.Mark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-19598918988301410332017-01-18T20:04:33.467-08:002017-01-18T20:04:33.467-08:00Thanks.
Thanks. <br />llewellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001213921499191213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-21017257620784474312017-01-18T19:34:39.441-08:002017-01-18T19:34:39.441-08:001: Hatz wasn't huge all his life; 2: sea turtl...1: Hatz wasn't huge all his life; 2: sea turtles emerge on land so terrestriality is no objection; 3: all of dinosaurs, terrestrial crocs, monitors and mammals would be faster, more formidable and more dispersed than a nestful of emerging turtle hatchlings.Mike from Ottawanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-22113110601588370292017-01-18T19:01:24.956-08:002017-01-18T19:01:24.956-08:00Yes, excellent point. If pterosaurs did become fl...Yes, excellent point. If pterosaurs did become flightless, they would presumably be terrestrial quadrupeds, not bipeds. <br />Unlike birds, there is (so far) no evidence of secondarily flightless pterosaurs. (Unless _Scleromochlus_ was one... but highly doubtful that it's flightlessness was secondary.) Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17837037454015036429noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-64986594310256076462017-01-18T18:57:39.602-08:002017-01-18T18:57:39.602-08:00Not really. I also can't see why a TERRESTRIAL...Not really. I also can't see why a TERRESTRIAL carnivore in a setting full of dinosaurs, terrestrial crocodilians, monitors and multituberculate mammals would be too pressed to have a diet composed of sea turtlesAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-25651108065618871862017-01-18T18:55:58.931-08:002017-01-18T18:55:58.931-08:00Sort off.
Phorusrhacids had an uniquely specializ...Sort off.<br /><br />Phorusrhacids had an uniquely specialized bill.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-5732733041955220402017-01-18T18:53:18.490-08:002017-01-18T18:53:18.490-08:00We don't have the exact proportions of Hatzego...We don't have the exact proportions of Hatzegopteryx's wings. However, the wing elements we have suggest flight capacities similar to those of other giant azhdarchids.<br /><br />Giant azhdarchids are speculated to have been capable of travelling across the globe with their flight abilities. Given the presence of Hatzegopteryx-like fossils in France it's perhaps safe to say that only competition from other carivores limited its range.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-78813090133930878752017-01-18T17:46:52.086-08:002017-01-18T17:46:52.086-08:00have two questions ...
(a) How far could Hatzegop...have two questions ...<br /><br />(a) How far could Hatzegopteryx fly, and what impact would this have on its ecological roles?<br /><br />Looking at those wings - and I admit I'm no expert in aerodynamics - it seems to me that Hatzegopteryx, while perhaps less capable in terms of long distance flights than other azhdarchids, would still be rather capable. It seems to me Hatzegopteryx could readily fly to northern Africa, and probably quite a bit further. Maybe it likes Hateg island because it doesn't get chased away from prize kills, but, it doesn't seem to be limited to Hateg island.<br /><br />(b) Eggs. I'm sure all pterosaurs would snack on dinosaur eggs given the chance, but it seems to me Hatzegopteryx might be better equipped than most to dig into a mound of buried dinosaur eggs. (Although maybe its bill is too wide?) Either way, I'm wondering that you don't specifically mention eggs.<br />llewellyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16001213921499191213noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-69690766888197640542017-01-18T17:22:53.407-08:002017-01-18T17:22:53.407-08:00Less that it needed to fly and probably more becau...Less that it needed to fly and probably more because pterosaurs didn't become flightless as easily as birdsAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-33445430445586893992017-01-18T16:56:36.508-08:002017-01-18T16:56:36.508-08:00As the arch predator in the Hateg Island ecosystem...As the arch predator in the Hateg Island ecosystem, why did Hatzegopteryx need to fly at all? Timhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17837037454015036429noreply@blogger.com