tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post391678878867503003..comments2024-03-23T12:02:36.626-07:00Comments on Mark P. Witton's Blog: Quetzalcoatlus: the media concept vs. the scienceMark Wittonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comBlogger20125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-55777078612629139862017-04-14T12:55:28.628-07:002017-04-14T12:55:28.628-07:00Hi,
My name is Rathan Prabhaharan and I am a 4th y...Hi,<br />My name is Rathan Prabhaharan and I am a 4th year Earth Sciences student. I looking for autapomorphies on pterosaurs for my independent project by going over numerous journal articles. I found them for just over 70 species but I am still struggling. Is there any advice you can give me in regards to find autapomorphies for individual pterosaur taxon? Reply back to my email address: rathanjason@hotmail.com Rathan Prabhaharannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-73263527227715309382016-07-29T12:42:00.171-07:002016-07-29T12:42:00.171-07:00I have just finished your book on pterosaurs and t...I have just finished your book on pterosaurs and the section on azhdarchid paleoecology, although brief, really shook my perception of Late Cretaceous ecosystems. I had realized for a while how strange it was that so few medium-sized theropods were known from Late Cretaceous sites, and yet I was stunned by the suggestion that azhdarchids could somehow fill their niche. I can imagine how an individual would have been able to target mammals and dinosaur hatchlings, but if some large species lived in flocks (as some of your depictions suggest), is it possible they could have brought down larger dinosaurs such as hadrosaurs, following herds on the ground and preying upon the old and weak? Granted, their jaws seem better designed to grab bite-size animals and then swallow them whole, but could they have killed prey, for instance, by very intensive pecking? Their long necks might have given them a sufficient reach to strike without being harmed, and they could still lift themselves to the air if prey came charging back at them, possibly making them a very frustrating type of predator. I suppose a mechanical analysis of their skull and neck is necessary to determine whether these body parts could have withstood the shock of such an impact...<br />Whatever their lifestyle and their feeding preferences among dinosaurs, the addition of these magnificent creatures to an already impressive cast of Late Cretaceous dinosaur predators brings to mind a host of new scenarios when recreating the lives of these times.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09044029147342613339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-72933331701746329382016-06-04T11:56:04.249-07:002016-06-04T11:56:04.249-07:00Possibly, I have been thinking about it as well. S...Possibly, I have been thinking about it as well. Seeing how flying animals have now limitations from crossing one continent to the other, it seems likely. It would probably make more sense that Hatzegopteryx was not the exception. Of course we will probably never know until a complete specimen is found.D-mannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-19608403352792629962016-06-03T16:31:40.192-07:002016-06-03T16:31:40.192-07:00I can't...edit posts? Argh.
Has this issue ev...I can't...edit posts? Argh.<br /><br />Has this issue ever been brought up in academic meetings/conferences? Seems like something the community would be eager to remedy.Zachary Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05035947146927565746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-31976962291473362602016-06-03T16:30:09.531-07:002016-06-03T16:30:09.531-07:00Having absolutely no real-world connection to the ...Having absolutely no real-world connection to the profession of paleontology, I find myself firmly in Mickey's camp, here. I understand there can be complicating factors, but I also think that light public shaming of this "hoarding" practice--or at least a demand for a reasonable explanation--should be deployed in certain situations, such as this Quetz one. The goal should be twofold:<br /><br />1) Get the target to back down, accept help, and/or generally stop the unhelpful embargo-ing. At a certain point, you have to realize you're not going to write the damn thing up, so let others do it for you. OR at the very least, provide an explanation as to why Quetz is just not being worked on and why you're not accepting help.<br /><br />2) It would (hopefully) send a clear message to the paleo community that this kind of embargoing is not tolerated and maybe you should think twice before locking a specimen in your office and never letting anyone else see it.<br /><br />I'm not all about villifying people, but there has to be academic pressure that academics can apply to get results. Just sitting back and saying "well it might be more complicated than we think" then staying silent about it (this is not directed at you, Mark, but paleontology generally) is just the least helpful action. <br /><br />There's got to be some kind of middle ground between "this guy's an asshole" and "well, we can't do anything about it."Zachary Millerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05035947146927565746noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-91677907706773735152016-05-31T11:40:16.536-07:002016-05-31T11:40:16.536-07:00After seeing this, I'm starting to wonder if Q...After seeing this, I'm starting to wonder if Q. northropi is actually the sister taxa to H. thambena and formed a terrestrial, raptorial giant azhdarchid guild (as opposed to Arambourgiana's giant stork lifestyle)BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03759189747932749283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-13376984082273550932016-05-31T11:40:03.076-07:002016-05-31T11:40:03.076-07:00After seeing this, I'm starting to wonder if Q...After seeing this, I'm starting to wonder if Q. northropi is actually the sister taxa to H. thambena and formed a terrestrial, raptorial giant azhdarchid guild (as opposed to Arambourgiana's giant stork lifestyle)BKhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03759189747932749283noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-32377251243804687042016-05-27T06:47:04.658-07:002016-05-27T06:47:04.658-07:00I'm not an expert in anurognathids, but I'...I'm not an expert in anurognathids, but I'm guessing that they didn't. Anurognathid skulls tend to have large orbits, suggesting that their eyes were unusually big. That doesn't exclude the additional use of echolocation, but it seems rather excessive to be relying on both good vision and echolocation. I guess you'd have to look at the size of their ear bones to be sure.Devin Adlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05225677638987217504noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-37533826387894343002016-05-22T21:54:19.482-07:002016-05-22T21:54:19.482-07:00Hello there Mark Witton. I have a question that al...Hello there Mark Witton. I have a question that although does not pertain to this post, does pertain to pterosaurs; Did anurognathids echolocate or are is that a mammalian trait?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-16410314999899688492016-05-20T04:22:43.392-07:002016-05-20T04:22:43.392-07:00I don't disagree with your general point, but ...I don't disagree with your general point, but it's not really bending over backwards to realise that these situations can be complicated, or that we should avoid pointing fingers at specific people without knowing all the facts. Yes, there is an institutional responsibility to getting these specimens out and making them accessible (and the TMM has not done a good job with Quetz on this front), but I'm also aware that these situations can be complicated as goes politics of specimen ownership, discussions over who has the 'right' to work on specimens, issues with analysing the material etc. Reading between the lines with Quetz, the fact the MS was promised for so long, and that waves of people have been attached to it over the years (including Doug Lawson, Wann Langston, Alex Kellner, Chris Bennett and others, and now another team) I wonder if there's more to the story than is publicly known. That doesn't excuse the circumstances of course, but I'm not keen to vilify specific people unnecessarily. Mark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-23138311641644268892016-05-20T00:25:07.232-07:002016-05-20T00:25:07.232-07:00I think it's interesting why we're bending...I think it's interesting why we're bending over backwards to exonerate Wann Langston. In what way was the Texas Memorial Museum not deliberately hoarding when in your own words, they "placed a strict embargo on the release of information about Quetzalcoatlus" and wouldn't let you or many others even see the thing? If something is museum policy, it's not incidental or accidental, it's by definition deliberate. As for maliciousness, why are big publishers like Elsevier seen as malicious for keeping scientific data behind paywalls when they actually add (some small) value to the data, but Langston somehow wasn't malicious for keeping scientific data behind closed doors and adding no value to it? What's the difference? At least we can pay Elsevier to get the data. It's not like Elsevier employees or even the CEO or shareholders are evil, they just have values that override science. Profit in this case. Yet surely the TMM's (namely Tim Rowe's, according to your link) and Langston's values of prestige or whatever are just as unscientific? So why can't we say "Yeah Wann was a good guy, but his selfishness really set azhdarchid research back decades." If we look upon people like him with some disfavor it might convince those that currently hold specimens in limbo (I forgot Drinker before, which has apparently been stuck in a certain person's office for a decade unavailable for research...) that deliberately hoarding fossils will make them the bad guys in paleo history. We really need to squelch this behavior now, but we need the community's force to do it.Mickey Mortimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08831823442911513851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-50698501749178247942016-05-19T17:40:49.132-07:002016-05-19T17:40:49.132-07:00The sad truth about Late Cretaceous pterosaurs is ...The sad truth about Late Cretaceous pterosaurs is that even giants are affected by the conservation bias. It now seems possible that we're actually missing a very large diversity.<br /><br />Incidently, what do you think of Montanazhdarchps status as a non-azhdarchid? It would account for it's "oddities".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-55658267677724128022016-05-19T12:19:27.828-07:002016-05-19T12:19:27.828-07:00You managed to draw an azhdarchid facing the camer...You managed to draw an azhdarchid facing the camera head-on. Welp, that clinches it: Mark Witton is a paleoart GOD.<br />That said, that last part certainly gives me ideas for the cartoon series I'm planning (I don't want to expose too much about it, but I'll give the general gist--it's a story about a boy with an azhdarchid steed traveling across a Dinotopia-esque continent of Cretaceous and some post-Cretaceous survivors); I'm definitely classing the main azhdarchid in mine as an Arambourgiania.CJCroen1393https://www.blogger.com/profile/09953786490603402779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-78102997729276402172016-05-19T03:18:13.233-07:002016-05-19T03:18:13.233-07:00We might want to avoid vilifying people here: I...We might want to avoid vilifying people here: I'm sure the chaps working on Quetz for all those years (or who said they were working on Quetz...) weren't deliberately being hoarders or malicious, just over-zealous with their ambitions to work on the specimen and too militant with their embargo. I won't pretend that the circumstances with this animal haven't frustrated certain projects, and I don't think it's unfair to say 40 years is too long to describe a few skeletons. But looking positively, there are real signs of life on the Quetz description. In addition to Brian, I believe Kevin Padian and Jim Cunningham are involved. Hopefully this version of the MS makes it to publication - I know others, by different authors, have fallen by the wayside (see, for example, this TetZoo comment by Chris Bennett: http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/tetrapod-zoology/quetzalcoatlus-the-evil-pin-headed-toothy-nightmare-monster-that-wants-to-eat-your-soul/#comment-1-87C5B20E-9F7D-47DD-A5462231D28E939C).Mark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-28895020819119010312016-05-19T02:59:30.146-07:002016-05-19T02:59:30.146-07:00Whoops - thanks for the spot. Fixed.Whoops - thanks for the spot. Fixed.Mark Wittonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02524696111911168322noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-74624244652043837522016-05-19T02:15:14.774-07:002016-05-19T02:15:14.774-07:00Wow. That skull that may be that of Quetzalcoatlus...Wow. That skull that may be that of Quetzalcoatlus northropi looks amazingly bulky. Combined with the research on short-necked azhdarchids, it makes me wonder whether northropi was more suited to attacking larger prey than other azhdarchids.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-16733658119141018572016-05-19T00:31:20.365-07:002016-05-19T00:31:20.365-07:00It is true, and the reason they aren't villifi...It is true, and the reason they aren't villified is because they are now dead. Luckily, it seems that since he has died, the museum has lifted their embargo and Quetzalcoatlus is FINALLY being described by the quite living coauthor Brian Andres (Andres and Langston, 2015 from last year's SVP meeting). Alas, the 2015 abstract is one of those that gives a lot of background info that anyone interested already knows without much actual new data. However, it does give one piece of relevant info- "The giant and smaller morphs of Quetzalcoatlus are recovered as sister taxa and so are closely related as either a single species or sister species."<br /><br />Practices like this are depressingly common in dinosaur paleontology. The current big case is Pelecanimimus, described briefly TWENTY-TWO years ago then described in detail in a thesis twelve years ago by a person who is no longer even in paleontology. But despite the fact the thesis will thus never be published, those few people with copies of it refuse to distribute it AND refuse to allow others to photograph it. But hey, they say I'm welcome to come to France and take notes. :| There are similar cases for theropods described in the 1980s from Mongolia and the early 2000's from China. I say if you have gone for a decade after describing a new species, you should rescind any rights you have over the specimen and let the community have access to the data. Mickey Mortimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08831823442911513851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-18303978520038990912016-05-18T20:37:11.122-07:002016-05-18T20:37:11.122-07:00Is it true that neither Quetzalcoatlus has been mo...Is it true that neither Quetzalcoatlus has been more thoroughly published upon because some scientist has been sitting on it for several decades but refusing to allow anyone else do the work instead? If that's the case, I don't see why they aren't just as villified as private fossil hunters. They've kept it even more scientifically "invisible" than, say, Pete Larson ever has with his finds. Even the "fighting dinosaurs" he tried to sell at least have publicly available photos.Andrew Raymond Stückhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12080621275951453768noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-32797835525128453172016-05-18T15:41:49.740-07:002016-05-18T15:41:49.740-07:00It doesn't look like the Unwin et al. (2000) p...It doesn't look like the Unwin et al. (2000) paper you mention in the text as giving most of Q. sp.'s major limb bone dimensions is in your list of references at the end.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3653345901774701895.post-71460094076396800692016-05-18T10:41:12.357-07:002016-05-18T10:41:12.357-07:00Very inforamtive post, I really wish we will found...Very inforamtive post, I really wish we will found more fossils of large Azhdarchids in the future.<br /><br />At least we have a new paper on Hatzegopteryx to look forward to.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14164538558433319744noreply@blogger.com